Dads Who Inspire Me – Meet Tommy Gomes I The OBHF Podcast: Ep. 8
It’s been my privilege to be friends with Tommy Gomes for about ten years, and he truly is one of the dads who inspire me. We’ve been having breakfast together every Monday at Las Quatros Milpas for about eight years, one of San Diego’s original Mexican restaurants and the food is great. People from the fishing, food and restaurant industry join us for a taco and we shoot the breeze about what’s happening in San Diego.
I was fortunate enough to photograph Tommy’s dad before he passed away and I’ve always been grateful for that. I love photographing older people, there’s so much life in their faces.
Tommy’s dad was a tuna boat master and so Tommy became a fisherman as well. And then he became a dad. And then he became a convict. Tommy is kind of famous now, but the road to getting there has been a tough and fascinating ride. His is a story of redemption sobriety and waking up to what’s important in life.
In this episode you’ll find out about:
- The path of boys whose dads were fisherman
- Why engineering is a better choice than captain on a boat
- How Tommy changed the experience of being a dad for prisoners in America
And why he’s one of the dads who inspire me.
Proudly Sponsored by:
Green Fresh Florals: www.greenfreshflorals.com
- Dads Who Inspire Me Transcript - Meet Tommy Gomes
[Music – Our Bird Has Flown]
From the Dusty Urban Ham Shack studio of WB6QWD, this is the Our Bird Has Flown podcast.
Paul M Bowers: Welcome to the Our Bird Has Flown podcast. I’m Paul M Bowers your host today and today we’re going to continue on my series of dads whoinspire me, but before we get that and before we get to our special guest I need to tell you about our
sponsor, Green Fresh Floral. Green Fresh Florals is run by Carlos Franco, he’s a buddy
of mine, and he has a store in Hillcrest at 3785 4th Avenue. You can reach him at 619-544-0504.
When you’re out at a wedding or corporate event and you see incredible
flowers that’s generally Carlos right there and his retail operation is incredible. You
can also go to greenfreshflorals.com. You can place orders online there and tell him I said hello and mention the Our Bird Has Flown Podcast and maybe he’ll throw in a little something extra for you, that’s greenfreshflorals.com.So we’ve got a very special guest in the studio today. I’ve got Mr. Tommy Gomes. Say hi Tom.
Mr. Tommy Gomes: Hello, thanks Paul for having me in.
Paul M Bowers:Hey, it is my pleasure. So, this is a series about dads I admire and I’ve specificallypickedpeople that I have, that have had a very different experience of
fatherhood than I have had and I’m fascinated by how it’s done and how it’s navigated. Let’s start out. Tell me a little bit about your dad.
Tommy Gomes:My dad, my dad was a commercial tuna fisherman, came from a
long line of hardworking gentleman who invested wisely and he was just a regular guy,
you know. I mean he would come home at the end of the year and he’d spend time
with myself and my brothers and we’d go to hockey games andborn and raised in San
Diego. He’s five brothers and three sisters. He grew up on Fenelon street in Point Loma
and when he was nine years old his mother was hit and killed by a drunk driver on his
Paul M Bowers:Wow!
Mr. Tommy Gomes:And so that left my grandfather to raise the boys who ended up being raised on fishing boats and my Aunt Margaret and her sister took care of the
house and a cousin from Madera named Tia would run the household.
Paul M Bowers:Wow, well that’s fantastic and, and your Dad eventually became a
commercial tuna fisherman that of great renown. Everybody knows this guy.
Tommy Gomes: Yeah, he did very well you know. At one-time San Diego was home
of the largest tuna fishing fleet in the world and there’s a lot of great history and a lot of great storieswith those guys and things like WD40 was founded by commercial
fishermen who helped financed it and just all kinds of neat stuff.
Paul M Bowers:And so, your dad was gone a lot?
Tommy Gomes:Yeah, he was gone nine months out of the year. He’d come home
for a little bit like two weeks and then he would go back out fishing and then come back and then as we got older my brothers and myself we would be on the boats. We, you
know, dad would walk into Point Loma High School and say let’s go and we were like ooh because it’d be two or three weeks before summer school. Before summer would
start we’d still be in school and the old man would come in and pull us out and we’d get on a boat and we’d go far, far away and come back two, three sometimes a month
after schoolstarted which might have something to do with my lack of twenty dollar
words and [laughter]education.
Paul M Bowers:So tell me a little bit about the relationship you have, in that situation , you have both a Dad but then you have your boss.
Tommy Gomes:Yeah you knowand for all the commercial fishermen that are out
there that, they understand that. Or if you work for a family in a big business you know
on the dock I’m family, on the boat I’m a crew member and you’re expected to pull your
weight plussome because of the family. It was kind of weird especially if your dad or
your uncles were the captain of the boat they would take you and call the crew off of the boat unto the dock and introduce you as the nephew or the son and then they would
call everybody on the boat and say this is our new crew member, Tommy. I don’t know
if that makes sense but —
Paul M Bowers:It does makes sense.
Paul M Bowers:It’s an invitation to kick your ass if
Tommy Gomes: And
Paul M Bowers:If, as necessary
Tommy Gomes:And it usually started with a 70-year-old deck boss.
Paul M Bowers:[Laughter]. It’s a little bit like military, right.
Tommy Gomes: Yeah because at 15 you know everything and so the 70-year old
man would come down and just literally kick your ass and you would stand there
waiting for your brothers to jump in and then realize that he kicked their ass too when
they were 15. So –.[laughter]
Paul M Bowers: [Laughter]
Tommy Gomes:These are guys that work the industry and you know when you
get on a boat you stay on a boat. You don’t, you know you stay on a boat through
thick and thin.
Paul M Bowers:So, there’s a lot of dedication to that and dedication and, in turn ,
dedication to your family?
Mr. Tommy Gomes:And that’s where it all starts.
Paul M Bowers:And so you started to do this at 15?
Tommy Gomes: Yeah.
Paul M Bowers: And so actually your dad was more present in a work environment
than in a home environment?
Tommy Gomes:Yeah he was butsee, when I started, I’ve been out on the boat
before I started working on the boats as a paid crew member.
Paul M Bowers:Right.
Tommy Gomes: You know you got to remember we started going out on the boats
when we were kids and we honestly actually didn’t see our first paycheck until we were 18.
Paul M Bowers:Wow!
Tommy Gomes:And then we started at the bottom of the pay scale even though
we knewjust as much as full share guys. We weren’t full share. We had to start all
over and you have to double and pay your duesand you just move through the ranks
like that but the old man was very strict, he was very honest and he was a real dad you know,
I mean he was very cool just as with a lot of fishermen.They work hard, they play hard and , and when you get home, you’re home and it’s family time.
Paul M Bowers:Interesting. So, you started working on the boats and this was
going to be, was your career?
Tommy Gomes:Yeah, yeah that was, that was it you know and, and whether it was
a sport boats or the tuna boats or crab, bird, lobster fishing or back east fishing on the
East Coast you know that’s what we did. We fished. We worked hard, we played hard and we, and we fished hard.
Paul M Bowers:Ever any desire to have a different career when you were a kid? Did
you dream of anything else or was that it?
Tommy Gomes:No, that was it. I mean that’s when you grow up in that householdthat’s what you’re going to be. You’re going to be a fisherman. It’s just like growing up
on a farm you know nowadays kids are leaving the farm.
Paul M Bowers:Right.
Tommy Gomes:And —
Paul M Bowers:Working outside the home or working outside the environment
Tommy Gomes:But I wonder what the percentage is of those kids who actually
leave the farm and then decide to go back.
Paul M Bowers:Or, or if the industry is even there to go back to.
Tommy Gomes: Yeah, see that’s the thing here in, in the U.S. is there’s that, the
American commercial fishermen are actually the endangered species.
Paul M Bowers:Understood. So, you started working on boats and this was your
career. So gradually you got promoted or something, you did some good and you
started working up and eventually you became the captain, right?
Tommy Gomes:Yeah running boats and still not giving orders because you know
you’re running a boat with guys that are, you know, twice your age or more and
have been working for your father’s company for years and years and years and have
put their kids through college and everything. So, you’re more or less learning every
single day and my father always taught me that you know when you’re on a boat you
think you know everything you might as well hang up your boots because somebody is
going to come along and show you something that you don’t know.
Paul M Bowers:So, but eventually you did becomea licensed captain? You did enough
school so you could get license for it and you, you traveled the world doing fishing.
Tommy Gomes: Yeah in order to becomewhat my father wanted us all to be we
had to go through the ranks and we had to learn to navigate where the you know, and we had to learn how to, you know, spend your time down in the engine room as an
assistant engineer and then if you wanted to be an engineer that’s what you’re, like my
brother Allen was an engineer and he followed under my Uncle Noah’s footsteps and
you know the rest of us wanted to be in the pilot house because you know that’s where the prestige is you know, you being in the pilot house, you’re being a captain or the
navigator and little did you know that at that time that the engineers made three times more money than a navigator —
Paul M Bowers:[Laughter]
Tommy Gomes:or as captain because they’re the ones who keep the refrigeration
going and everything else. So, every day was a learning curve with the old man.
Paul M Bowers:But eventually you’re on your own and you’re out there doing big
Tommy Gomes:Yeah doing big stuff and fishing and getting it done and still in
contact with the family via the radio and WWDKMI and all that stuff long before satellite phoneand all the fancy gidgets and gadgets that they have nowadays.So yeah,
we just moved up through the ranks and continued to go and then you know things
started to I went through a little bit of rough weather there.
Paul M Bowers:Well you, you got married at some point.
Tommy Gomes:Yeah, we got married. I met my, she was the bank teller at the bank I was–
Paul M Bowers:is that right?
Tommy Gomes:Banking at, yeah.
Paul M Bowers:And then you met, you got married and you had a child.
Tommy Gomes:Yeah we had Delaney and yeah that was pretty cool.
Paul M Bowers:And then eventually your life took a turn.
Tommy Gomes: Yeah, yeah I got, I made some seriously bad mistakes and some bad choices.You know which I tell people all the time just because you made bad
mistakes doesn’t make you a bad parent.You yourself will make yourself a bad parent. Your mistakes don’t make you a bad parent but with that I became a drug addict, alcoholic and ended up doing a decade in federal penitentiary.
Paul M Bowers:Now, how old were you when you, I’m sorry how old was Delaney
when you went in?
Mr. Tommy Gomes:3 ½ I believe it was, 3 or 4.
Paul M Bowers:Wow.
Paul M. Bowers:So, you had a little warning. You knew that this was coming because
you had a trial. There was a legal process. So, you knew that this was coming up.
Paul M Bowers:Tell me a little bit about how you prepared Delaney, how you prepared your family for this. You knew you were going to be gone for a while.
Mr. Tommy Gomes:Yeah.
Paul M Bowers:Tell me what did you do.
Tommy Gomes:So, I mean the night, the night that I was, it was a drug transaction
Mr A wanted to be introduced to Mr B. I happen to know both of them.Mr. A happened
to be a confidential informant for the D.E.A. working offhis drug charges. So, I got drug
into it. Anyway, I knewthat the last minute the transactionplace changed to my house. So, I immediately got my daughter out of there and the transaction went down at my
house whereas obviously it was a set up that, 34 agents stormed the house and thank
God that I was clear of mind that I had my daughter out of there so she didn’t see it.At
that time, I was strung out pretty good and just not clearly thinking but there’s always
that thought in the back of your head about doing the right thing when it comes to your
child. So, I ended up at sentencing I got 121 months. So I explained to Delaney with the
help of her mother and my parents and my friends that I was going away for big time,
Paul M Bowers:[Laughter]. Well, they can understand timeout.
Mr. Tommy Gomes: Yeah.
Paul M Bowers:Yeah well speaking of time I just heard a chime which means that I
have to do, I have to talk about our sponsor and then we’re going to come back to this
story because this is an interesting point. One of our sponsors here at the Our Bird Has
Flown Podcast is the National Conflict Resolution Center and the National Conflict
Resolution Center does incredible things.
They are in ncrconline.com.You can learn
more about them there. There are lots of mediation services for public and for legal
community, divorce mediation, individuals and families, and conflict resolution
services for community based dialogue.National Conflict Resolution Center,
ncrconline.com.So off you go and so you offered your 100, 120-months, was it 120-month time out?
Tommy Gomes:It was a 121.[Laughter]
Paul M Bowers: 121. [Laughter]
Mr. Tommy Gomes: So —
Paul M Bowers:So, what do you do, so what do you do? Now, now you’re an
incarcerated dad. This, this experience is so different than mine and I’m fascinated by it and, and so here you are. What do you do with it?
Tommy Gomes:So, you make the best of the situation. Prison is a lot of things
and one of them that it’s not is prisons are not cool.It’s not what you see on T.V.
It is what it is and it is what you make of it. If you want to be a knucklehead and and you want to get involved in all the politics and all the drugs and everything else and the gambling and the loan sharking and all that stuff that goes on in there chances are you won’t make it out or if you do make it out you’re going to end up going right back in.
So, you need to make that conscious decision to better yourself, better your life and to maintain a positive contact and influence on your child or children that you leave. Oh, some of the
things that I didwas I noticed that there were programs in line for female inmates to
have better interaction and visitation privileges with their children. So, there was
nothing that like that for male inmates at all and you know remember just because
you made a bad decision or just because you’re in prison doesn’t make you a bad parent. You made a bad decision that landed you into that situation at that time.
So, I talked to a counselor about putting together a program and they kind of laughed and I was talking to some inmates, some pretty influential inmates. I was lucky enough to, if you want to
say I was lucky enough to do federal prison time. So, I met some very influential
individuals there and I spent about a year and a half putting together a package of a
program and I actually submitted the male parenting program to my counsellor and I was atF.C.I Phoenix in Phoenix, Arizona. I didn’t get out much so I didn’t really know
what the countryside looked like but —
Paul M Bowers: [Laughter] You didn’t get out much?
Paul M Bowers:Probably a wise choice. [Laughter]
Tommy Gomes:Yeah. So, I submitted the program and Janet Renowho is the
attorney general that actually liked it so much that she actually mandated that to beacross the country in male prisons and what it was, was I just put together a class. I
taught the first class at F.C.I Phoenix and I was there for several years and every week I
was teaching this class and it was a six-week class about how to be a better dad while
incarcerated and we talked about howwe could get books sent to your kid and you had
the same book and you could read the book over the phone even though you only had
you know 12 to 15 minutes.
That was 12 to 15 minutes that you got to spend with your
kid reading over the phone and if your kid didn’t know how to read or was just learning how to read you could help them with that and then there were you know silly little
things like you were able to have your kid sit on your lap while you played cards or you could do coloring books in a private room with your kid while watching a Disney movie or something like that. These are all very minorsteps inthe big picturethat you’re just
trying to be a better person and if you were doing what we call a short stint, 10 years
or less, that gave you the chance to maintain thatpositive contact and positive influence
with your children.
Paul M Bowers: So, you were in when she was 3 ½ you said?
Paul M Bowers:3 ½ till when she, when you, when you got out she was a teen?
Tommy Gomes:Oh yeah!
Paul M Bowers: And, how was that?
Tommy Gomes:That was different.
Paul M Bowers:And at the time you, youand your wife had split up then?
Tommy Gomes: Yes, yeah.
Paul M Bowers: So she, you split up while you were in?
Tommy Gomes:Yup while I was incarcerated —
Paul M Bowers:Wow.
Tommy Gomes:I got the Dear John letter.
Paul M Bowers:Oh I’m sorry.
Mr. Tommy Gomes:That’s OK. I mean what, look in all reality I’m going away for ten
years, you’ve got to remember I’ve never even been arrested before. All I knew about
prison was what I saw on T.V. So, you know she had to make her own life.
Paul M Bowers:Yeah.
Mr. Tommy Gomes:She’s going to wait for me?Are you kidding?
Paul M Bowers: [Laughter]
Mr. Tommy Gomes:I was lucky enough that she married me in the first place.
Paul M Bowers: [Laughter] So, you’re, you’re out, you’re divorced or about to be
divorced and you have a teen daughter.
Paul M Bowers:Teen daughters are difficult at any time but you’ve been away. Tell me about —
Tommy Gomes: [Laughter] Yeah.
Paul M Bowers:The relationship once you returned.
Tommy Gomes: To you know that, I don’t know, can you edit this?
Paul M Bowers: I can —
Tommy Gomes:You know what they say about daughters.
Paul M Bowers: [Laughter] Well maybe I shouldn’t edit it. What do they say about
Tommy Gomes:Well when you have a son they go oh great you only have to worry
about one penis because when you have a daughter you have to worry about them all.
Paul M Bowers:Oh. [Laughter]And you worried?
Tommy Gomes:Well no. Yeah, of course I did, you know.Look when you get out of
prison there’s not a whole lot of foundation built for you to succeed. You may open the
door and say we’ll see you next time because odds are you’re going back.
Paul M Bowers:75% or 80%,
Tommy Gomes:Yes, so I had no foundation, no anything andnaturally I went back
to fishing which got me to you know I knew I was a drug addict.
Paul M Bowers:Well you didn’t, you didn’t, it’s not like you had alternative careers at
Tommy Gomes: Yeah I mean and we did I mean there’s some funny stories about
prison and there’s you know some sad ones as well but for the most part there’s some
funny stuff that goes on in there.But I had, I had started drinking and my dadnoticed itand was like very, very concerned and I, I wasn’t really listening because I was still, I
was scared to fail. I was, fear of failure, fear of the unknown and all of that whiletrying to maintain what am I doing now, I have this stigma. I’m an ex-con, an ex-felon.
I can’t vote, no passport, nobody’s going to hire me, anything else and I started drinking and so my dad tried to help me with that but then it was my daughter. Delaney who actually came down and gave me the you know I lost you to prison and I don’t want to lose you to this and drinking and everything and I snapped out of it and went into a rehab center and —
Paul M Bowers:Well hold on now. When you say you started drinking I know there’s
more to that story. You didn’t just start drinking. I drink, I’ve started drinking. You, you
were serious about drinking and you ended up homeless in the gutter, these kinds
Tommy Gomes:Oh yeah, I was eating out of the trash can, it was awesome!
Paul M Bowers: [Laughter]
Tommy Gomes:I was cuddling next to restaurant grease traps to stay warm.
Paul M Bowers:So, so when you say started drinking it’s a little bit more serious.
Tommy Gomes:I didn’t say anything about finishing though.
Paul M Bowers: [Laughter] Like the, the reason that I bring that up is because this was a,
this is an incredible journey back from this. This was not well you know I have one too
many during a football game. You had to come from one alcoholic phase, rock bottom.
You were seriously, serious —
Tommy Gomes:I drank every single day, all day long in order to maintain what I
thought was a normal life. My knees are still scarred from hitting the pavement and
getting sick. Where I was so sick that I burned the oesophagus in my throat and the
skin off my lips from throwing up so much.
Paul M Bowers: [Gasps]
Tommy Gomes: And I had to continually ingest alcoholin order to not throw up. So, I was yeah it was I mean go big or don’t go.
Paul M Bowers:Well you and you certainly did accomplish that.
Tommy Gomes: Yeah, I, it was awesome you know people used to cross the street
to get away from me because you’re like oh my God there’s that guy you know.
Paul M Bowers:So, you had a heck of a hole out of which to dig yourself and, and I
mean we’re friends, this is not a secret that we’re friends. It’s remarkable to me and I
truly admire it. Tell me a little bit about that process. Delaney eventually came to you
and said I lost you once toprison I don’t want you to lose you again.
Tommy Gomes:Yeah and so I,I found a friend who knew about a rehab center
called the San Diego Freedom Ranch and I ended up going to that and they said my
father drove me up there and I was determined to get in there and I rolled in there with
a brand new hefty garbage bag full of dirty clothes and that’s all I had.And they said, you know, I had a sleeping bag, and they said you know, you’re going to have to fill out
this paperwork and call us every other day. It’s probably going to be 6 to 8 weeks and I
started unrolling my sleeping bag right there and they said what are you doing I said I’ll stay.
Paul M Bowers:[Laughter] I’ll wait.
Tommy Gomes:You can’t stay and by this I’m on parole, okay. I’m still on parole, called my P.O. and said hey I need help, I’m going into this place and they, they don’t really help you because it’s set up for failure, the whole parole thing. It’s just set up against
you because you’re waiting. You always have your hand out and you want them to help you. You don’t want to help yourself. So, you have this mentality that it’s set up to fail. I
don’t know, do you understand what I’m saying?
Paul M Bowers:I understand.
Tommy Gomes:Yeah if you want to take it, it’s all out there but you want them to
give it to you, otherwise it doesn’t work.So, they said you can’t stay here, I said yes, I
can and they called the sheriff and the sheriff came and I told him my story and he said
you got to get off the property, I’m not going to call your probation officer because then
I would have just got sent right back.
Paul M Bowers:Yeah contact with law enforcement that’s not a —
Tommy Gomes:That’s not good, that’s not good. I don’t like polishing the hood of their cars with my face.
Paul M Bowers: [Laughter].
Tommy Gomes: [Laughter] So which is funny because I got a Police Lives Matter
pinned on my hat.
Paul M Bowers:I see it yeah.
Tommy Gomes: So,I ended up finally getting into the San Diego Freedom Ranch
where it was 120 dayscourse and I stayed for eight months.
Paul M Bowers:Wow!
Tommy Gomes:And one day I woke up and there was several times in my life
where I’ve had thesespiritual awakenings if you will.
Paul M Bowers:I will.
Tommy Gomes:Which are great stories in itself butI had a spiritual awakening
where I was like I got to, I got to do something. I had to get out of here and I walked into
the office and said I’m leaving, I’m doneand they’re like you don’t have a job, you don’t
have anything. I don’t know what I’m going to do but I’m done.
Paul M Bowers:All right but at this at this point you’re sober, you’re not using anymore. You’re not using drugs or alcohol.
Tommy Gomes:At this time, I’m sober for the eight months. So, I split and go down
the hill. Go to work at Catalina Off Shore andthat’s where it’s at and continue to build a
better, stronger relationship with not only my mom and dad and my kid but my ex-wife and my son in law now, who happens to be a criminal defencs attorney. What’s
up with that?
Paul M Bowers: [Laughter]
Tommy Gomes:Where were you when I needed you?
Paul M Bowers: [Laughter] Not that you weren’t well represented, right?
Tommy Gomes:Oh no, I was well, well represented.
Paul M Bowers:So, Delaney is how old now?
Tommy Gomes:I’m not going to say because she’ll get mad.
Paul M Bowers: She’s in her 20s? Late 20s?
Paul M Bowers:Late 20s?
Tommy Gomes:We’ll call it that.
Paul M Bowers: [ Laughter] We’ll call it the late 20s. And you have a, now you have a
different relationship as we all would with adult children. Tell me a little bit about that.
Tommy Gomes:Well I mean we still have a you know she’s, she’s my only kid. And
you know I’m there for her 24/7 and, she knows that if she picks up the call, if I pick up
the call and there’s something that I can do then I most certainly can do. What I can’t do
isfix the transmission when you’re just south of San Francisco —
Paul M Bowers: [Laughter]
Tommy Gomes:On the side of the road.
Paul M Bowers: [Laughter] Oh come on dad!
Tommy Gomes:You know that I can’t do. Now if you were down here in San
Diego we could find something to do but that’s just a little bit out of my radar.
Paul M Bowers:But she’s, she’s out about? My understanding is she has a new job, a new gig.
Tommy Gomes:Yeah she does you know. She branded herself. She’s a burlesque
dancer which was quite the shock. Her uncles, all my, my, my brothers that have made
it out of the system of federal prison and made something with their life are her uncles. So one needs to be very careful around Delaney because she knows a lot of people and—
Paul M Bowers:She’s well connected?
Tommy Gomes:She’s very well connected and so her name is Dotty Deville. She
changed her name to her stage name. She’s a burlesque dancer which means no lips,
no nips and no brass pole.
Paul M Bowers:Excellent!
Tommy Gomes:Very classy.
Paul M Bowers:Very classy.
Tommy Gomes:Ok otherwise out of the family and you get nothing. So and now
she, she went to work for White Labs and learned about the craft beer craze here in San Diego which is very big and went to work for Bitter Brothers and now she is part
owner and manager of a new craft beer jointin the college area.
Paul M Bowers: Excellent!Well, that’s a heck of a story and I appreciate you coming in
and telling it and I’m hoping that, that listeners are going to learn just like I have and
thank you, thanks for joining us.
Paul M Bowers: This has been the Our Bird Has Flow Podcast. Time to wrap it up. I’m Paul M Bowers here in the WB6QWDUrban Ham Shack Studios lit by a single
Edison bulb hanging on a wire from the ceiling with a pull , that’s how we do it here. Our podcast is remotely produced by Brian Thomas at Yokai Audio in Kalamazoo Michigan. Our sponsors are Green Fresh Florals atgreenfreshflorals.comand the
National Conflict Resolution Center at ncrconline.com.You can visit our website at
ourbirdhasflown.com where we talk about ourTopsy, Turvy home life and our college bird Jesse Bowers be sure to subscribe to our podcast. We’ll see you next time. Thanks for clicking in.
Paul M Bowers: Subscribe to the Our Bird Has Flown Podcast on iTunes give us a listen, give us five stars. If you don’t enjoy it listen and go to a movie, thanks.
[Sings – WB6QWD]